TTMWL: Episode 3 — “What’s the Difference Between a Learning Culture, Training Culture, and Training System?” with LDRM’s Doris Tempelmeyer

Episode Transcript

Adam Wagner: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Allogy’s podcast, Training the Modern Workforce Live, the bi-weekly show discussing training and talent development solutions and best practices. Each episode, we’ll talk about a different training topic, and make sure to keep an eye out for special guests and interviews from top training professionals.

With me, as always, I have Colin Forward, CEO of Allogy. For the last decade, Colin has provided major U.S. hospitals and federal agencies with distance learning solutions. He’s an alumnus of UCF’s Institute of Simulation and Training, where he studied mobile technology under Dr. David Metcalf while earning a degree in computer science and his MBA.

Joining Colin this week is LDRM’s training manager, Doris Tempelmeyer. With a background in teaching and as a business owner, Doris utilizes both sides of her resume as a corporate training manager. Now in her fourth year at LDRM, she has complete— completely redesigned their training program and is in the process of expanding to other locations nationally. Her high-impact, on-demand performance solutions certification is proving highly useful in the company’s overnight shift from in-person classroom to online instruction earlier this year. She operates with a never-give-up attitude and believes everyone has the ability to accomplish great things if given the right path.

This week, we’re going to be talking about training as an investment. All organizations provide some sort of training, but it’s important to create a system that leads learners to not only be engaged but successful as well.

We’ve got some great questions on deck already, but feel free to ask any questions that may come up in the chat, and we’ll get to as many as we can. Alright, Colin, over to you.

Colin Forward: Great. Thanks, Adam. And thanks, Doris, for joining us today— really appreciate your time, and I’m excited for this conversation.

We’re going to dig into some of the different intended outcomes of investments that people make in training. But to set us up, why don’t you talk a little bit about some of the work that you’ve been doing recently because I think a lot of learning professionals would probably relate.

Doris Tempelmeyer: During the first of the year when COVID hit, prior to that, we were focused on just in-classroom training. And yes, we do have some activities, some materials already that are interactive, but the challenge that came earlier this year, we turned around all those hard papers, hard copies into an interactive approach.

Some trainers’ comfort zone is just what they are used to being, and they don’t know the usage of this technology—PowerPoint, Adobe DC—how to create those interactive or simulations. So, it was quite a challenge, but we did it.

Colin Forward: Yeah, so obviously, learning professionals all over the place right now are facing a lot of these same challenges. Do you feel like that’s a matter of a skills gap or a system gap or just a culture gap? Like, what are the specific improvements that you’re looking to make within this team of instructional designers you’re working with?

What Training Improvements Are You Making Due to COVID-19 Restrictions?

Doris Tempelmeyer: Well, first and foremost, you have to have a system in place, technology-wise. Right? If you don’t have the right technology, then you can’t have the right materials for your delivery because that’s one key also for the delivery. But we do have, say for someone, Microsoft Word or any systems that are built-in already—you can utilize those. PowerPoint, for example, there’s a lot of things you can do with PowerPoint, but some trainers don’t know that it exists.

Most of the systems, I would say 10 percent of that is what is utilized. Ninety percent, they don’t know about it. So, as for me, I learned this not through school—save for some of the PowerPoint. I don’t go to school where I can just study about all PowerPoint, but just go seek and find, and it’s kind of part of the generative learning approach, I would say.

Colin Forward: Yeah, so it’d have to be pretty self-directed, I guess. So it’s mostly in that case where you’re talking about getting the most out of the tools that you have. This is kind of a train the trainer effort. Is that something that you took on in a formal capacity, or is it something that you’re just doing informally in the course of your work managing the scene?

Is Your Train the Trainer Curriculum Formal or Informal?

Doris Tempelmeyer: Well, again, coming from a teaching background and a business background where I’m the one who developed, along with my husband—we developed our own website. So, you have to speak the language of the audience. I would say, if you are going to develop something that your customers, your clients don’t need it—what’s the use? It’s moot. You’re just spending a lot of dollars for it. So you have to get the most out of it in order for the results that you would like to meet that goal, to meet for your audience.

Colin Forward: So how do you set those expectations for the folks that you’re working with for the trainers and those teams?

Doris Tempelmeyer: So similar to the training, you have to teach them; you have to train them with the process. So the train the trainers, before we even teach the trainees who will be going through enrolled in the program, the train the trainers, I have to start with them. So with that, it’s not just the mechanical process. I start to develop their critical thinking.

That’s the most important skill set that they have to have. Without that, how can they apply? How can they think outside the box when they are out in the field? So that’s one thing that I have provided to the trainer. So, it may be understanding the concept of the lesson plan because most of the trainers, most of my trainers, don’t go to education school.

So they don’t know what a lesson plan is. So, you know, before they can build it, they have to understand it. The same thing as how you use the syllabus, how you develop training materials. So there is a lot of models for that one. You can’t just go ahead and create something. You have to follow the principles of that.

Colin Forward: And so do you have a specific model, or:

Does Your Organization Have a Specific Model for Tracking the Competency of This Training and These Instructional Designers?

Doris Tempelmeyer: Yes, I do. So, as far as for the learning for the trainers, if you’re familiar with Bloom’s Taxonomy, I start with that one. So in creating our lesson plan, our syllabus, even a rubric, I look at the Bloom’s Taxonomy because that’s more on the individual level. And then, from that, the overall training program, I have utilized ADDIE.

Again, training is not a straight line; it’s a cycle. You start from training-needs assessment, going to the business units to understand what the problem is. Similar to if you’re going to the doctor, the doctor will have to know what the problem is—they can’t just give you a prescription. So they have to go and x-ray and whatever it is that they have to do in order for them to provide you the correct prescription.

So it’s similar to that training. So I have to conduct a training-needs assessment whether training is the answer or not because, again, most of the organizations, “Oh yes, this person needs training.” Because again, you have to look at the holistic view of it. Is it the organizational level, the systems level group, or individual level? So that is the reason why I have to do the training-needs assessment.

Colin Forward: Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, we’re talking about making these investments in training, and anytime you make a significant investment, you’re going to want to measure the return. So, based on what you’re saying, it sounds like you’re probably going to be tying that investment back to a few different outcomes. I heard you mention Bloom’s Taxonomy and ADDIE and then some of the business needs that come up from the groups that you’re supporting with training. So what are you tying those investments back to? What are your measures of success in the system?

To Which Measures of Success Are You Tying Your Training Investments?

Doris Tempelmeyer: I like cooking. In cooking, there’s a recipe that you have to follow, but I’m the kind of person that I’m not good at following the recipe. I have to test here and there—a little bit of that, a dash of pepper, or whatever it is.

Colin Forward: I’m the same way.

Doris Tempelmeyer: So with that, I do have the three main recipes that I put in order for that effective training. One is the training system to be in place. The training system is the structure. It’s the foundation that entails your training plan, your syllabus, and the training materials. It’s the formal blueprint of your training program.

And then, the second recipe is the training culture. It is an environment where the organization sees value in training. Business units openly request training programs and services. So, training culture is also driven by the management and supervisors who seek to improve operational performance.

So in order for them to have the buy-in, you have to deliver those needs for the business unit. Once you deliver those needs at the end of the training that they get their business results, they get their ROI—the result of that is they would like to ask more from the training department. That’s the value in it. That’s the culture. So it’s not just the training department. You partner with the business units, you partner with the trainers, you partner with the senior management team, even. So, it’s not a solo project; it’s a collaborative effort.

Colin Forward: Yeah, for sure. I mean, we’ve talked a lot about getting that kind of buy-in even on our last episode where we’re talking about change management. So to that end, I’m wondering:

Is There a Distinction that You Would Draw Between a Learning Culture and a Training Culture?

Doris Tempelmeyer: Yes. So training culture, it is instructor-driven—the training. Learning culture is the learners—learner-driven or, I would say, individual-driven. The learning culture is a desire to increase knowledge on the individual level, rather.

So, I would like to tie this in with that buy-in. Your training won’t be effective if you don’t have buy-in from the individuals themselves. So, what that means is if you are just forcing the individual to go into the training program, “Oh, by the way, you’re going to be trained on this course or whatnot.”

If that individual doesn’t have buy-in, your training is not effective, the knowledge transfer isn’t there. So one, you waste your time for your trainers. You wasted their time, their productivity time, and overall, the ROI isn’t there. So it is important to have all those buy-ins but from the management level down to the individual who’s going to participate in the course.

Colin Forward: Yeah, so that rings true to me. If we step back for a second and we look at this idea of a learner culture—kind of a two-part question here:

How Do You Measure Your Baseline and Go About Investing in a Learning Culture?

Doris Tempelmeyer: I would say, again, I would like to use all three. Okay, all three. With that, all three, I would like to have the training system as our foundation. It’s at the bottom. Without that structure, anything more will collapse. And then, the next layer is the training culture. It offers value to the business unit.

And then, the top layer is the learning culture. Without management, the support beneath it, individual support will not stand up.

Colin Forward: Okay. I think there are probably a lot of organizations where they feel like they have a system or they know how they want to deliver training. They have buy-in from the training team, but they’re not quite sure if the learners are going to be engaged, if the learners are eager for training, or if they’ve embraced that culture. So do you have a way to measure that? Do you have a way to, sort of, say whether it’s qualitative or quantitative? Is there a way to say, “Hey, I think our team is ready and receptive, or maybe we need to set some expectations so that people are more engaged in training?”

Doris Tempelmeyer: I do measure the individuals who were in the training. And not only the individuals, I also grade the trainers because, perhaps, it’s the trainers also that needs more training, needs more professional development. So for the individual level, for the participants, the trainees, I do the knowledge and their skills. I have the benchmark when they were at the business unit. Say, for example, they’re just going to be retrained. So I do have their benchmarks already from the unit.

And then, when they are in training, while they’re doing the hands-on training, then we have the results for that one to compare from their benchmark. And then, we do also conduct 30-, 60-, 90-day post-training. That’s when you can really assess their expertise once they get out from the training.

Did they apply the knowledge that they have learned during the training period, or have they developed their expertise? So, again, that 30-, 60-, 90-day, that’s the most important aspect of the assessment—whether the training program is successful or not. Then, that’s the time that you can, “Okay, you know what? We have to make some adjustments because we haven’t met the goal.” Then, you can adjust your program. It’s part of continuous improvement.

Colin Forward: Sure, that cycle you were mentioning.

Adam Wagner: All right, guys. I think that’s a pretty good start here. We actually covered the first question from Laura A. So I’m going to jump into Pritpaul B’s question. He asks:

Our Organization Has a Few Instructional Videos But Not Much Else. Would You Consider that a Learning Culture, Training Culture, or Training System, and Which Would You Recommend?

Doris Tempelmeyer: Why not all three?

Colin Forward: Ideally, right?

Doris Tempelmeyer: Yeah. So, these are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Instead, they are built upon each other, like a three-layer cake similar to what I have discussed earlier.

Colin Forward: So, I guess we’ve been talking about how a lot of these folks are having to go from maybe just doing all classroom sessions, doing all face-to-face, and going remote. You know, and maybe in that environment, they would feel confident saying, “Yes, we have a system, we have a training culture, we have engaged learners.”

But if I understand what the question is getting at, it seems like there are a lot of people out there that are under these new expectations, having to take their PowerPoints or some existing piece of content and repurpose it, which it sounds like you’ve been doing a lot with your Adobe and PowerPoint and that kind of thing. So where does someone in that position start? When you go from having an in-service, classroom-based training system that seems to be working, and now you have to do something new, what are the first steps that you start to take?

Doris Tempelmeyer: Start with a plan. Planning is the key. After you have that plan, then organize it.

Before you can develop something, in order for you not to waste your time and do your content right away, everything starts in the planning. You have to have that script. You have to have that storyboard. So from that storyboard, once you have all those scripts, all those content, then that’s the time to go ahead and see if you have all of those.

Create a checklist. Do I have everything in here? Am I missing something? And also, sometimes we have to ask a fresh set of whys, right? That comes in the quality checklist. It may not be you—a colleague, maybe. Stakeholders have to be a part of it. So the stakeholders might be the SME, might be the training manager, might be one of the supervisors from the business unit. So, again, tying that in the business unit is part of that process.

Colin Forward: Sure. Yeah, I mean, one thing we’ve seen crop up a little bit with people that are having to develop these new systems is collaborative learning, bringing in someone from the business unit to help with instructional design. Is that something that you’ve been doing much, or is the instructional design kind of happening in silos?

Doris Tempelmeyer: Before, it was in silos. And, again, as a training manager, it has to go to an approval process. So I have to approve it. But looking at this, and again, coming from a teaching background and knowing the principles—especially for eLearning principals—I said, “You know what, we’re missing this.” So you’re not only critiquing that person, but you’re also coaching that person in order for that person to adjust their course and perfect it and then deliver in a most-effective way.

Colin Forward: Yeah. So, do you think that for most organizations that are going through these changes that bringing in those SMEs from the business unit should be standard practice, or do you think it’s just case by case?

Doris Tempelmeyer: I would say, again, because it’s a collaborative effort, you have to have an SME. You have to have the instructor because the instructor already knows the principal. The SMEs might not know the principles of teaching, the principles of eLearning. The SME knows the process. So you have to have all those parties involved with it. So not just the SME, the instructor is involved there. And even that we also have a processor involved in that process. The CSA is involved in that process, right?

Colin Forward: Can you break that— a CSA?

Doris Tempelmeyer: CSA: customer service analyst. So that CSA, they perform some processes. So it’s important for them because, again, we are trying to speak their language. They are our customers, not us. We are trying to deliver the product, not us. So again, that’s part of the needs assessment. That happens from the get-go before we develop and design the training materials.

Colin Forward: Okay. Yeah, I think that’s what I’m looking for is how are those SMEs coming in and contributing? And it sounds like you’re saying that is really important for making sure that you’re speaking a language, you’re not developing something in isolation, and it’s going to be relevant to your learners.

Doris Tempelmeyer: Right.

Colin Forward: So we’ve kind of stepped through the process of you’ve got this new challenge, you create a plan, and you organize with different people that are going to be participating. You bring in the subject matter experts, and then you try and hold people accountable to that plan. And then you start delivering training, right?

Doris Tempelmeyer: Correct.

Colin Forward: So then, what does that look like? You know, again, setting this baseline for a new system, how do you evaluate from day one how this new approach is working and if learners are engaged?

How Do You Measure Success and Engagement in a New Training System?